'91 Super coupe will not start..

DOUG H

SCCoA Member
If it ran well before you changed the balancer, it must be be related to that &/or the CKP sensor.
I'd be putting the orig DIS back also before proceeding any further, since it worked the day before & you don't know if the other is good or not. Maybe you are out of gas? Still have pressure in rail?
 

KMT

Registered User
Pull at least one plug and see if they are fluffed again. If not clean, you know the drill.

If clean, backprobe the signal wire off the crank sensor, leaving it connected, then with a healthy battery and DVOM, sniff it's output while trying to start. You should see bumps between 4v~5v.

Sorry if I missed it, have you (re)confirmed continuity thru the CKP at it's connector yet?
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
If it ran well before you changed the balancer, it must be be related to that &/or the CKP sensor.
I'd be putting the orig DIS back also before proceeding any further, since it worked the day before & you don't know if the other is good or not. Maybe you are out of gas? Still have pressure in rail?
added 5 fresh gallons no change. the original balancer looked fine. I have the new part store one on. I hate to keep pressing them on and off. I doubt the balancer itself is the issue. CKP sensor has damage and the bracket it is glued to is loose. my brother must of had trouble installing. starting to think i should replace CKP sensor. I have signal from the pip circuit at ckp sensor to the eec and dis circuits. No way to know if the signal is good as i am just using a test light.
 

KMT

Registered User
the bracket it is glued to is loose.

Ouch - loose at all is not good. Does sound like it needs replace.

Can you test light the signal while cranking to see if it pulses?
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Pull at least one plug and see if they are fluffed again. If not clean, you know the drill.

If clean, backprobe the signal wire off the crank sensor, leaving it connected, then with a healthy battery and DVOM, sniff it's output while trying to start. You should see bumps between 4v~5v.

Sorry if I missed it, have you (re)confirmed continuity thru the CKP at it's connector yet?
It is so weird before i received the DIS It ran great for days in the garage. Even prior to installing the balancer.. I doubt the balancer is the issue but like i said in my last post the CKP sensor does have marks in it. I can back probe with led light at the white and green wires from CKP and i get steady blinks. I have not checked voltage yet. 12 volts to the CKP sensor and if i recall its a 10volt pull down hall effect switch. SO with an averaging DVOM 4-5 volts if my entry level meter will catch it. I have not checked pip in at the EEC connector but have at the DIS connector. Unplugged the SPOUT yesterday and still no start. From my reading of the system with the SPOUT out of the plug the dis controls timing no EEC input. Also swapped back to the original DIS and no change. Lost here...
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
The coil has been replaced, from a replacement before.
The cam sensor has been replaced twice since owning the car.
The DIS module has been replaced and changed a couple times.
the wires test good and the spark plugs were replaced and cleaned 2 hours of run time prior.( will check again)
the balancer is new.
the EEC has been swappped.

My thought at this point is if something in that list went bad again, or the damaged CKP sensor.
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
I'd replace the harmonic balancer at this point. If all the sensors are new and the balancer is still the orginal its probably the issue. Especially if it has been removed and installed a handful of times.

Usually it's suggested not to re-use the OE balancer once its been removed.

In my younger years of ownership I did this a few times (broke student days) and the results were usually more work. Broke crank bolts, balancers sheering apart...the rubber is probably shot.

-Tim
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
I'd replace the harmonic balancer at this point. If all the sensors are new and the balancer is still the orginal its probably the issue. Especially if it has been removed and installed a handful of times.

Usually it's suggested not to re-use the OE balancer once its been removed.

In my younger years of ownership I did this a few times (broke student days) and the results were usually more work. Broke crank bolts, balancers sheering apart...the rubber is probably shot.

-Tim
It would no start Saturday night after new Dorman balancer installed. CKP sensor shows damage so I ordered a replacement. Bill from Supercoupe says Dorman balancers are bad and fail. Should I leave Dorman on it or install orginal. Orginal looked fine no damage or Deteriorated rubber.
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
Dorman is trash that's true. The Dayco PowerBand part number PB1530N is the ideal replacement however I think they're hard to find...maybe be discontinued. Rockauto shows out... I think O reilys is the only parts store other wise to carry them. The other options is a BHJ replacement but I think they're hard to find and usually north of 300$

Any idea why the balancer was replaced? Could try to old one for giggles if you think its okay but I wouldn't run it for my personal piece of mind.

-Tim
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Dorman is trash that's true. The Dayco PowerBand part number PB1530N is the ideal replacement however I think they're hard to find...maybe be discontinued. Rockauto shows out... I think O reilys is the only parts store other wise to carry them. The other options is a BHJ replacement but I think they're hard to find and usually north of 300$

Any idea why the balancer was replaced? Could try to old one for giggles if you think its okay but I wouldn't run it for my personal piece of mind.

-Tim
I replaced the orginal after removing it 2 times and the previous owner damaged the threads for the pulley bolts.

Dorman is not the best I get that, but the tone wheel is just a piece of metal not sure how it could create issues
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
I replaced the orginal after removing it 2 times and the previous owner damaged the threads for the pulley bolts.

Dorman is not the best I get that, but the tone wheel is just a piece of metal not sure how it could create issues
I hear ya. Lots of this stuff is simply from long term ownership reporting back and trial-n-error as a club.

Shame the dayco is $150 these days... it sold for $80 few years back.

At this point thats the only item thats suspicious.
-Tim
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Is that the supposedly well received Windstar balancer? Knew I should have bought one for a spare when it was $80, now stock seems to be drying up as well.
And the damaged ckp sensor I ordered . Well what really is a shame is Dorman is 165 but it has the pulleys as well. Not sure if it's worth it to pull this one off and try and return it an order the 1 you sent me from Amazon. I'm just having a hard time understanding how they replacement I have installed could go bad when it's just a piece of metal that grounds out a hollow effect switch. At this point I'm trying to get the car running for the family so they can sell it if we can get it to run for a couple months that's all we want
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
I hear ya. Lots of this stuff is simply from long term ownership reporting back and trial-n-error as a club.

Shame the dayco is $150 these days... it sold for $80 few years back.

At this point thats the only item thats suspicious.
-Tim
And the damaged ckp sensor I ordered . Well what really is a shame is Dorman is 165 but it has the pulleys as well. Not sure if it's worth it to pull this one off and try and return it an order the 1 you sent me from Amazon. I'm just having a hard time understanding how they replacement I have installed could go bad when it's just a piece of metal that grounds out a hollow effect switch. At this point I'm trying to get the car running for the family so they can sell it if we can get it to run for a couple months that's all we want
 

KMT

Registered User
having a hard time understanding how they replacement I have installed could go bad

Not just metal - there are two main steel parts, thick rings, inner/outer, joined by a layer of vulcanized rubber. Dorman has a reputation for being lowest quality - rubber not lasting I think is #1, #2 is bolts not holding up.

Some parts aren't worth the risk when it's a car you want to keep and depend on, but you said just to get a couple months out of it, so...

Otherwise, I think the question is how much risk an owner is willing to take with a suspected lower quality HB. It might be ok for a while, but a fail can be costly if it takes out other components, making it no bargain in the end.

How many times has the one in the photo been installed? Remind us why you removed it?

If you're certain the one installed now isn't chewing at the CKP sensor, then leave it and watch it like a hawk. If the one in the photo isn't that old (not sure why you refer to it as 'stock/original'?), and hasn't been repeatedly swapped out, then consider re-using it. If you don't want to face risk at all, get the Dayco or BHJ. Just my $0.02 USD.
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
Is that the supposedly well received Windstar balancer? Knew I should have bought one for a spare when it was $80, now stock seems to be drying up as well.
I'm not sure of alternative balancer options for the 89-93 ...the 94/95 benefits from the Freestar 4.2 v6 balancer ...I posted a YouTube video on this a short while ago as forum posts seem to get lost over time.
 
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