'91 Super coupe will not start..

Mranalla07

Registered User
Well...the plot thickens. ... so the Dorman balancer is the Dayco Part?

-Tim
Not just metal - there are two main steel parts, thick rings, inner/outer, joined by a layer of vulcanized rubber. Dorman has a reputation for being lowest quality - rubber not lasting I think is #1, #2 is bolts not holding up.

Some parts aren't worth the risk when it's a car you want to keep and depend on, but you said just to get a couple months out of it, so...

Otherwise, I think the question is how much risk an owner is willing to take with a suspected lower quality HB. It might be ok for a while, but a fail can be costly if it takes out other components, making it no bargain in the end.

How many times has the one in the photo been installed? Remind us why you removed it?

If you're certain the one installed now isn't chewing at the CKP sensor, then leave it and watch it like a hawk. If the one in the photo isn't that old (not sure why you refer to it as 'stock/original'?), and hasn't been repeatedly swapped out, then consider re-using it. If you don't want to face risk at all, get the Dayco or BHJ. Just my $0.02 USD.
The balancer pictured is the original, to the car WHEN WE PURCHASED it. it has been removed twice. When i first got the car from my brother I was told a new CKP sensor was installed. I did some research and found posts about the balancer being an issue. When everything checked out, I went to order a Dorman. After removing the pictured, original to car, balancer the bolt holes got damaged. Saturday the car was running and I figured why not replace it now. Now the car does not start. The pictured balancer is original to car when we bought it. Google search the pictured balancer # and it comes up with a Dayco powerband balancer. Looks in great shape. Now the car currently has the Dorman and does not run. Thinking I should remove the Dorman. install new CKP sensor and original Dayco and see what happens?
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
The balancer pictured is the original, to the car WHEN WE PURCHASED it. it has been removed twice. When i first got the car from my brother I was told a new CKP sensor was installed. I did some research and found posts about the balancer being an issue. When everything checked out, I went to order a Dorman. After removing the pictured, original to car, balancer the bolt holes got damaged. Saturday the car was running and I figured why not replace it now. Now the car does not start. The pictured balancer is original to car when we bought it. Google search the pictured balancer # and it comes up with a Dayco powerband balancer. Looks in great shape. Now the car currently has the Dorman and does not run. Thinking I should remove the Dorman. install new CKP sensor and original Dayco and see what happens?
I would do just that. Tap some new threads or helicoil the stripped threads and ride. That balancer id be confident in even if removed and installed a handful of times.

Makes sense now why you said the orginal balancer looks great! Sounding more and more like the orginal owner had a balancer failure (probably caused that damage to the crank sensor) ...and well here we are.

-Tim
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
Likely what they did is use the bolts from the OEM Ford balancer on the Dayco (which is a different thread pitch) . More of this makes sense on my end. Takes some effort otherwise to cross thread the balancer bolts.

-Tim
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Re-tapped the threads in the Dayco. Installed with old CKP sensor for the H*LL of it. Car ran but the tone wheel was contacting the CKP casing (not timing cover). Car eventually died. Removed balancer and sensor has damage. Hoping sensor is bent and caused it. When I get the new sensor I will install it and watch it for contact. Hoping that fixes it.
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
Easiest way I found to dial in the sensor adjustment. Grab some painters tape put 3 or 4 layers on the trigger ring vein/fin on the balancer so that it covers both sides that could contact the sensor. Rotate the crank to the spot where thats in the crank sensor range. Adjust the sensor accordingly. Take off the tape and you should have just enough clearance on either side. Its a real PITA to tighten and adjust those crank sensor bolts as im sure you've already experienced. Also in my experience this was the only way to avoid the magnetic pull from latching onto the trigger fin while adjusting.

Probably be wise to roate it all the way around with a socket on the crank just for good measure if you have any suspect in that trigger ring being true.

Think if anything else here. Might have finally narrowed down the problem.

-Tim
 

Tim Groth

SCCoA Member
View attachment 96500say orginal balancer. Notice anything? think stock should go back on

Also looking closer at this picture I can see where the sensor has made contact with the trigger ring vein. ...just going back through the entire thread to make sure I'm not missing anything on my end while giving suggestions.

From my understanding any contact means the sensor is toast moving forward.
A set of these wrenches is what I used to adjust the sensor using thr painters tape suggestion mentioned.

SPEEDWOX Mini Wrench Set Metric SAE Ignition Wrench Set Open End and Box End Standard Combination Wrench Spanner for Assembling Furniture Small Equipment Auto https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3ZG2N...t_i_YSPAT6K4J15SPHWCENBC?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

You'll be wrenching for a while but its all I could since small enough to allow me to do so. Believe the bolts are 5.5mm but im sure you know that at this point in the game.

-Tim
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Easiest way I found to dial in the sensor adjustment. Grab some painters tape put 3 or 4 layers on the trigger ring vein/fin on the balancer so that it covers both sides that could contact the sensor. Rotate the crank to the spot where thats in the crank sensor range. Adjust the sensor accordingly. Take off the tape and you should have just enough clearance on either side. Its a real PITA to tighten and adjust those crank sensor bolts as im sure you've already experienced. Also in my experience this was the only way to avoid the magnetic pull from latching onto the trigger fin while adjusting.

Probably be wise to roate it all the way around with a socket on the crank just for good measure if you have any suspect in that trigger ring being true.

Think if anything else here. Might have finally narrowed down the problem.

-Tim
That's the plan is rotate and look for contact. If it is not true I will order the Dayco from Amazon before the Dorman
 

35th

Registered User
If it where me and sorry if I missed it in this but if the balancer (any of them) are/is in good shape I would lean toward the sensor there is almost no room for error there I replaced mine more than once my original balancer broke I put a bhj on the car and a new sensor I didn't have the sensor exactly right and it got messed up before the car even actually fired (found out later I didn't reconnect a ground wire when I had engine out) but after connecting the wire it wouldn't start because of the minimal damage to the crank sensor... Replaced it again made sure to properly algin it and bam cars runs so short story long is damage to sensor no Bueno in my case it seemed like there was no way that little bit of damage would cause it to stop working but it certainly did... That's my 2 cents but I'm usually a penny short
 

35th

Registered User
This was my damaged crank sensor that's all it took
 

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35th

Registered User
I hope so also always a great feeling when you overcome a headache of a problem and you get to drive the car just a good feeling
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Installed the new ckp sensor. Checked the gap with a mirror multiple times and spun it by hand. No start. I am lost. Ran 1-2 days ago for 20 minutes with a damaged ckp sensor hitting the tone wheel snd died. I figured it died due to the damage on the old ckp sensor. I am lost now.
- Either overloking something easy
- New/multiple issues
‐ Possible sensor adjustment issue
- 100 other things..
 

35th

Registered User
Has the car been in the rain? Is it stored inside or out? The reason I am asking is because mine on the passenger side underneath the windshield cowl where the fresh air intake for the hvac system is was leaking at one point this allowed a small amount of water to get inside the car and it ran directly on to my computer so I had to replace the computer of course seal the leak I also relocated the computer to directly behind the glove box where it sits at a better position incase of future leaks I did this by carefully cutting the boot/seal where the wiring from the engine goes into the firewall on the passenger side pulling some extra wire to the inside and putting the boot seal back on and sealing the boot with silicone to prevent it from leaking where I cut it open to remove it but my understanding is that you don't want to extend the wire because that would change the resistance of signal going to the computer so if I where you if you think it's possible that the computer got wet check and see if the computer shows any signs of water damage if it hasn't been outside then I'm not exactly sure where to go next...
 

DOUG H

SCCoA Member
Did you put the DIS module back on that was on it the 2 days it did run, in case the used 1 you put on is no good?
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Has the car been in the rain? Is it stored inside or out? The reason I am asking is because mine on the passenger side underneath the windshield cowl where the fresh air intake for the hvac system is was leaking at one point this allowed a small amount of water to get inside the car and it ran directly on to my computer so I had to replace the computer of course seal the leak I also relocated the computer to directly behind the glove box where it sits at a better position incase of future leaks I did this by carefully cutting the boot/seal where the wiring from the engine goes into the firewall on the passenger side pulling some extra wire to the inside and putting the boot seal back on and sealing the boot with silicone to prevent it from leaking where I cut it open to remove it but my understanding is that you don't want to extend the wire because that would change the resistance of signal going to the computer so if I where you if you think it's possible that the computer got wet check and see if the computer shows any signs of water damage if it hasn't been outside then I'm not exactly sure where to go next...
Car has been in my garage for the past 2 months
 

Mranalla07

Registered User
Just want to keep people updated who are having similar issues.

Car not running. Plan is to check the plugs this week. Wuld like to back pressure test exhaust. Trying to locate a scope and some time to check pip and cid signal at eec
 

351tt

Registered User
Start with new plugs.
With this much grief never tune or diagnose on used plugs including cleaned ones , especially ones that are suspect/wet .
Could be the difference between the engine firing up , even if its not running great , it may be good enough to start looking for wiring issues , harness shake test etc.
 
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