An update on the saga of my bird's brakes

Roboplex

Registered User
Back when I first got my Anny, I went to a local Ford dealer and paid them to bleed the brakes. They left the master cylinder 100% full and I had to deal with that mess on my own... I can't think of any good reason to let any dealer near these cars, these days. They just aren't familiar with them any more.

I went to Sears for a 4-wheel alignment - they told me the rear wasn't adjustable. Kept looking until I found a shop that actually wanted to do the work.

I only know one speed shop in the area that I'd let work on my SC and that's only because the tech I talked with drives one.

I'll keep doing my own work as long as I can.

Dang. Ours has been pretty good, and I trust them more than other people. But my ears are open if you know of anyone in central Florida who is good with SCs
 

Roboplex

Registered User
So the mechanic said the master cylinder was leaking. I'm not sure if they sell just the master cylinder anymore, but he suggested we take it to Ford to get that done. So we have an appointment with the Ford Dealer on Monday to get it looked at. He said that also, the bolts on the supercharger were messed up. I'm not sure how, but he said that Ford would be able to look at that also. He said that otherwise, the car is in great shape. It's just the lady who owned it didn't drive it, so it deteriorated a bit sitting in her garage.

Just picked up the car from the local guy. He said that the supercharger bearing was shot. I didn't feel that it had any play in it, but the snout itself was vibrating so I guess that means it's bad? Dropped it at Ford, they said they have a specialist who works on performance vehicles, and is familiar with the SC. Not sure if that's BS or not, but I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.
 

SCarSC

Registered User
could be the coupler...that is pretty easy to replace, and inexpensive...you can get the kit on ebay as well, or from one of the vendors, spinningwheelssc.com or supercoupeperformace should have something.
 

Roboplex

Registered User
could be the coupler...that is pretty easy to replace, and inexpensive...you can get the kit on ebay as well, or from one of the vendors, spinningwheelssc.com or supercoupeperformace should have something.

Maybe. Honestly, I'm not sure the local mechanic knew anything about the brakes. He mainly does mufflers, but I guess my mom brought it to him for some reason. But I got a once over, an AC recharge and an oil change out of it. I'm just waiting on what Ford has to say about it. My dad says they've been pretty fair and honest in the past. Hopefully I'll get an answer by mid-week.
 

SCarSC

Registered User
Sorry, sc snout coupler, nothing to do with brakes. It connects the snout to the rotors, the holes get widened from use and it sounds like marbles in a coffee can or some such thing.
 

Roboplex

Registered User
Sorry, sc snout coupler, nothing to do with brakes. It connects the snout to the rotors, the holes get widened from use and it sounds like marbles in a coffee can or some such thing.

Oh I know that's different from the brakes. I didn't even know it was broken to begin with. He just said to get that checked out at Ford along with the brakes. Said that if it completely breaks, it can ruin the whole supercharger and cause thousands in damage. I didn't notice it sounding like what you explained, but I guess Ford will tell me if it's on it's way out. He didn't elaborate on the brakes. Just said the master cylinder was leaking and to take it somewhere else. So that's what I did xD
 

fstcoup

SCCoA Member
brakes and snout coupler

I switched the brakes on my 90 to a conventional set up eliminating the abs years ago and have no regrets . The installation of a conventional master cylinder and booster was less than two hundred dollars and a couple of hours of my own labor, I wouldn't hesitate to do it to my other cars in the future. I also have found a knowledgeable, clean shop that is willing to work on my cars and other older not so well known vehicles like them with a mechanic who owns two SC's in Dade City . They have reasonable rates and I have complete trust in them, I'm sure they could handle the snout coupler on your supercharger the brake problems and A/C, If you would like to contact them I'm listing the number and contact below.
I did think this was a good car when I saw the add but like I told the last owner I bought a car from, it's twenty five years old and they all have needs. Sorry to hear your having problems.


Downtown automotive 352-437-3802

Wess, the owner answers the phone
 
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SuperChicken89

Registered User
Here is the shop in Ormond Beach where a good friend takes his SC. They have a mechanic there who knows these cars.

Personally I wouldn't take it to a Ford dealer or any dealer for that matter. They will just want to change the whole super charger for just a bad snout coupler and seal. The bearing may be bad but I doubt it unless it has been run without oil due to the bad seal. I've rebuilt a couple front snouts including the bearings and can't say the old bearings were truly bad. The main failures were the already mentioned couplers and seals.


Auto Works of Ormond
309 N US Highway 1
Ormond Beach, FL 32174

Phone: (386) 673-5500
Phone: (386) 872-0386 - Text 24/7
Fax: (386) 673-7744

ken@autoworksoformond.com


Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Bryan
 
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Roboplex

Registered User
Here is the shop in Ormond Beach where a good friend takes his SC. They have a mechanic there who knows these cars.

Personally I wouldn't take it to a Ford dealer or any dealer for that matter. They will just want to change the whole super charger for just a bad snout coupler and seal. The bearing may be bad but I doubt it unless it has been run without oil due to the bad seal. I've rebuilt a couple front snouts including the bearings and can't say the old bearings were truly bad. The main failures were the already mentioned couplers and seals.


Auto Works of Ormond
309 N US Highway 1
Ormond Beach, FL 32174

Phone: (386) 673-5500
Phone: (386) 872-0386 - Text 24/7
Fax: (386) 673-7744

ken@autoworksoformond.com


Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Bryan
Thanks so much!! It's already at Ford, but if they try to sell me anything that I don't need, I'll take it there. I really appreciate it!
 

Roboplex

Registered User
I switched the brakes on my 90 to a conventional set up eliminating the abs years ago and have no regrets . The installation of a conventional master cylinder and booster was less than two hundred dollars and a couple of hours of my own labor, I wouldn't hesitate to do it to my other cars in the future. I also have found a knowledgeable, clean shop that is willing to work on my cars and other older not so well known vehicles like them with a mechanic who owns two SC's in Dade City . They have reasonable rates and I have complete trust in them, I'm sure they could handle the snout coupler on your supercharger the brake problems and A/C, If you would like to contact them I'm listing the number and contact below.
I did think this was a good car when I saw the add but like I told the last owner I bought a car from, it's twenty five years old and they all have needs. Sorry to hear your having problems.


Downtown automotive 352-437-3802

Wess, the owner answers the phone

The thing is that the lady who owned it just didn't drive it much. Said it had been sitting for a few months in her garage, and just wasn't driven much. Too much car for her. I was naive enough to think the ABS light coming on when braking was normal, just letting you know the system was up and running. I knew about the AC leak, but had no idea about the brakes or snout coupler. Either way, it still beats the hell out of any other cars that I could find for $2,500. I'm actually always over in St. Pete visiting relatives, so maybe next time I'll make a little detour to Dade City and stop by your mechanic if it doesn't work out with Ford, or the SC friendly mechanic in Ormond.

Thanks for the advice!
 

SuperChicken89

Registered User
Thanks so much!! It's already at Ford, but if they try to sell me anything that I don't need, I'll take it there. I really appreciate it!

The Ford dealer is probably trying to figure out what that antiquated braking system is. I'm sure the 30+ year old technology has them confused.

If you take it to the Orlando area, I have a shop here who knows these cars. The Ford Shoppe 407-339-5585 located in Maitland on US 17-92.


Bryan
 

Roboplex

Registered User
The Ford dealer is probably trying to figure out what that antiquated braking system is. I'm sure the 30+ year old technology has them confused.

If you take it to the Orlando area, I have a shop here who knows these cars. The Ford Shoppe 407-339-5585 located in Maitland on US 17-92.


Bryan

Thanks! It's leaking a good amount of brake fluid, so I'm not too comfortable taking it that far without getting at least the brakes fixed. So I'll most likely be doing the brakes closer to home, but I'll look into your shop for maybe the supercharger or the AC.
 

SuperChicken89

Registered User
Thanks! It's leaking a good amount of brake fluid, so I'm not too comfortable taking it that far without getting at least the brakes fixed. So I'll most likely be doing the brakes closer to home, but I'll look into your shop for maybe the supercharger or the AC.

Glad to help out a fellow SCer. Kenny at Auto Works is a good guy to deal with from what I hear and has a mechanic who knows these vehicles also. Many shops shy away from these cars because they don't understand them. Good luck and let us know how it works out.


Bryan
 

Roboplex

Registered User
Well I have some bad news. Ford just called me back. It is the pump that's leaking. So, now it's either getting a used pump, or converting to conventional brakes. I would like to stay with ABS, just because I like to keep things as original as possible, but I also don't want to spend even more on ABS repairs down the line. I've already gotten a few offers from people selling used Teves parts, but I'm not sure if that would be a viable long term fix. If I convert to conventional, should I choose vacuum-assist or hydroboost? Do you think that any of the mechanics mentioned earlier would be willing to take on the task of converting the brakes? Ford did say that they would install used parts if I wanted them to, but I don't think they'd be willing to modify/convert the whole brake system.
 

S_Mazza

Registered User
Well I have some bad news. Ford just called me back. It is the pump that's leaking. So, now it's either getting a used pump, or converting to conventional brakes. I would like to stay with ABS, just because I like to keep things as original as possible, but I also don't want to spend even more on ABS repairs down the line. I've already gotten a few offers from people selling used Teves parts, but I'm not sure if that would be a viable long term fix. If I convert to conventional, should I choose vacuum-assist or hydroboost? Do you think that any of the mechanics mentioned earlier would be willing to take on the task of converting the brakes? Ford did say that they would install used parts if I wanted them to, but I don't think they'd be willing to modify/convert the whole brake system.

Does the ABS pump still build pressure? If so, you may not need to swap the pump. Just replace the seals.

If you take a look at the Jaguar pump & motor in this picture (link may go down eventually), the black plastic at the bottom of the motor can is some kind of vent/drain port. If the shaft seal is leaking, it will leak from that point.

s-l1600.jpg
 

Roboplex

Registered User
Well I have some bad news. Ford just called me back. It is the pump that's leaking. So, now it's either getting a used pump, or converting to conventional brakes. I would like to stay with ABS, just because I like to keep things as original as possible, but I also don't want to spend even more on ABS repairs down the line. I've already gotten a few offers from people selling used Teves parts, but I'm not sure if that would be a viable long term fix. If I convert to conventional, should I choose vacuum-assist or hydroboost? Do you think that any of the mechanics mentioned earlier would be willing to take on the task of converting the brakes? Ford did say that they would install used parts if I wanted them to, but I don't think they'd be willing to modify/convert the whole brake system.

So I have some sorta good news. The SC bearing isn't bad! Don't know what the other mechanic was thinking, but Ford said the supercharger was fine. He said that the idler pulley bearing was shot, and so was the belt that drove it. Said that it would probably be worth it to replace all the belts while he's working on it. And they're pretty old and I noticed some wear on all the belts so why not. $450 for all 3 belts and pulley (parts/labor).

The amazing thing though, is that they're fully willing to convert the brake system for me. THE DEALER! WILLING TO MOD A FORD! He said they were already researching other cars with systems that could fit in the SC. They were thinking maybe an old Mustang without abs or something. So I'm sure they would install parts that I sourced through SCCOA. I might bring up the hydro boost conversion system that I found online. Do you all know of any other cars with systems that could fit in the SC? I heard maybe some 90s Crown Vic's would work. So I guess now I have 3 options. Used Teves parts, old Ford non-abs parts, or a brand new Bosch hydro boost system. I'm not sure which would be best in the long run. I do have someone who would sell me a whole used Teves assembly for $150, so that's tempting. But what would you do if it were your car? I'm not sure which to invest in.
 

sam jones

Registered User
Good evening

It depends on your maintenance expectations and resources. The SCCOA try and true brake conversion has an outstanding record of success based on forum posts. The parts are readily available new or sourced at the salvage yard. Not quite a plug and play as some modification is required. Price appears to be reasonable depending on your resources. You are freed from electronic with this system. Of course you loose the Anti-Lock function and therefore some of the appeal of the SC.


You could replace TEVES motor or the complete unit and may not have another problem for a substantial period of time (which is what I would do). However just as a heads up my experience with the TEVES system failure have been:

Depleted accumulated ball (causing the pump to run excessively).
Failure of the TEVES pressure switch.
Rupture of the brake pressure warning switch.
Braided hose leaking.
Faulty anti-lock relay and or defect with the connector (causing the pump to run excessively or not run at all).
Anti-Lock brake lock control module fault.

This can be attributed to age so spare parts are a must. It is very cost prohibited for outsource repair. Look at cost for a refurbished unit (greater than $900 when in stock). In my opinion maintaining the TEVES is a DIY maintenance. TEVES is not Company supported any more. New parts are not so plentiful and salvage parts have been (at least in my area) difficult to find. Spinning Wheels and Super Coupe Performance is a great source for some parts. Craigslist and EBay sometimes. So use technical information and assistance from this forum. Despite all the negatives I still have TEVES because of the uniqueness.

The new Hydro Boost system is interesting. New, free from electronics and Company supported. Price is expensive but is below the cost of a refurbished TEVES. Semi plug and play (at least in the promotional video). Again you loose Anti-Lock feature. Small price to pay for reliability. This may be the future option for the SC in the future if parts or support get very narrowed.

Anyway that my .02$. The final call is up to you.




Good Luck.
 

KMT

Registered User
But what would you do if it were your car? I'm not sure which to invest in.

We've already gone over that, and with 58 posts in this thread, more than once, so I'm not sure why you're acting like this just came up in your head...more talk isn't going to get it done.
 

S_Mazza

Registered User
The Teves system does give really good, solid pedal feel, which I like. And it's technically interesting (not that it matters too much on a daily driver!). I have had failures of the ABS relay and the pump motor. So I can't say it's trouble free. But I have kept it (doing the work myself) because it was the simplest way to get the car working again, kept it original (again, this may not matter), and wasn't all that expensive.

To me, fixing it was the best option. But in your case, it may not be. I don't know the status of your accumulator, pressure switch, and pump motor brushes. If it was my car, I would replace and rebuild all that at the same time, because it's not actually a fun job to pull this MC and pump out. That adds up (about $100 for the switch, $150 for the accumulator, and say $200 for a motor rebuild). So there's $450 for everything. Also, the motor rebuild does take a little time to ship out and get it back.

(Hmm, I just found a NOS pump & motor & pressure switch on eBay for $495. This is a good find! They don't come up that often. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-For...ash=item25b51e790f:g:r2cAAOSwCypWnntM&vxp=mtr)

In your case, if the pump motor, accumulator ball and pressure switch are working, you could leave those and just do the pump motor seal for about $5 plus labor. (By the way, I just received my order of these yesterday ... I still need to look them over and check the material, and then they will be available for SCCoA members.) But think of the mechanic's labor costs if you have to pull the system out again in 6 months to fix the next part.

The hydroboost system looks like it's about $600? If so, I would say that system is a decent option. But you would lose ABS, I think?

The vacuum conversion is a decent way to go as well ... but again, you lose ABS.

So think about it and let us know what you decide.
 
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