Custom Billet Crankshafts.....

XR7 Dave

XR7 Dave

Registered User
We are in the discussion phase with this. I'm just posting to let people know that there is a company who is interested in possibly providing us with billet cranks. My question is, who would be seriously interested if the option were available in the near future and how much would you be willing to pay for one?

The crank would be significantly lighter than the stock crank, stronger than anything else in the SC motor and would accept standard SBC or 351W rods in various lengths. It would be made with a 3.75" stroke for 4.3L displacement.

Post your feedback. :)
 
A forged steel stroker crank for the SC block? priceless? Ideally the whole block could use an upgrade with something like that.

Honestly I would think that if the vendor wants large numbers, they'll need to keep it pretty competitive with similar parts for other motors since finding replacement SC cranks is a pain in the arse.

$450 - $600? Not sure how realistic that is, just comparing to eagle chevy small block models.
 
Dave,
Yes this is something I would be willing to buy. I guess I might pay 800$ for one.
Can I be the first. :D
 
This is not a forged crank, rather this is a billet crank and it won't be $600-800. The only current offering is from Moldex at $2300, I'm hoping this would be less but I don't know how much.

This is not something that you would just toss in there because you didn't feel like resurfacing a stock crank. This is for that person who is building a motor with H-beam rods, forged pistons, etc., and would be expecting to either toss a load of nitrous against it or a lot of boost.

This crank would be made to be interchangeable with NA V6's as well as 4.2's or any other Ford V6 based on the same block, so ya I will post the question to the other V6 boys as well. I'm waiting on a few more details first though.
 
Oh... well for billet it's probably out of my league when looking at my 5 year goals. For that much machine time on a CNC machine I'm sure you looking at into the custom wheel prices. That puts you at $2500 plus or minus $500..easy.

I have to imagine there are quite a few drag racers though that would see that as a wise investment for the kind of power many of the guys want to put down. A short block package with billet crank would likely be the best way to sell something like that. What's that give you then? $3800 or so for a complete short block with billet crank? not a bad ballpark considering the potential.

Part way down this article it talks about the difference between billet and forged cranks
http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/eb040554.htm
 
Um. What would set this apart from Morana's stroker kit? For $2000 US you get the whole kit. :confused: I just can't justify spending $2300 for a crankshaft that still requires piston/bearing/connecting rods. Aswell as the fact there has been no posted dyno's from any stroker kit. Meaning that, for $2300 are you getting 5 HP? :)
 
Tom,

Morana's kit will not hold up to the kind of power this part is intended for. Just ask Pro Street Rich.

Anyway, I'm thinking ahead. With a billet crank you will have the ability to run 700rwhp from this motor. We are starting to see some forced induction that is capable of providing the airflow/boost for those kinds of HP numbers so it only makes sense to start thinking about the parts necessary to support that HP level.

This part is not being considered simply because it allows a longer stroke. The longer stroke was merely an added benefit. The crank offers many advantages, one of which is the reduction of rotating mass by as much as 20lbs. That's not a misprint.

Really I can go on, but if you don't see the value in this already I'm not here to convince you. With the right other parts to go with it, this crank could provide another 50rwhp easily over a comperably built 3.8, but then it also has the ability to go into territory that a stock 3.8L crank simply cannot go. There is a 3.8/4.3 being built right now that will give you that comparison. The motor made 305rwhp before the conversion. I believe it will make 375-400rwhp afterwords utilizing the same M90 blower and cylinder heads.

I'm really looking for people who are already aware of the benefits and have been waiting for an opportunity such as this to come around.

:)
 
Wasnt Chris Wise car a stroker?..We all know what his car made...I;d be more interested in a forged steel or cast steel stroker crank at an affordable price personally.
 
Anyone ever thought of knife edging and cryoing the stock crank? On DSM's you remove around 7lbs of weight and the crank can hold 900hp easy..
 
KwikGSeX said:
Anyone ever thought of knife edging and cryoing the stock crank? On DSM's you remove around 7lbs of weight and the crank can hold 900hp easy..
Click to expand...
Dennis, I actually looked into knife-edging my crank, but once my running engine broke, I didn't have time to go through with it.
 
If its in the near future I'll have to decline but if it doesnt happen for another 1-1 1/2 years I'll be all for it. Do you know if they'll manufacture these outside of a group purchase if/when it goes through?
 
Wise had an offset grind to his stock crank to obtain more stroke, Fred H. has a Moldex billet, and I think Jim Demmit had two of them. One in a shortblock and one loose. I'm sure others have them, but don't know who.

Dave,

I have not seriously considered the billet crank, because I thought the limiting factor on our motors were the heads lifting. Do you have something in the works to address that problem first ?

David
 
wouldnt the only effective way to prevent that be more bolt holes in the head? And that would require completely brand new heads and I dont know if the block could be tapped for that or if a new block would be necessary. But there is a v6 mustang guy with ARP studs and MLS gaskets and he pushes 27psi of turbo boost throught it without problems. He also has a cast 4.2 crank and made 587rwhp.
 
The problem with lifting heads has to do with running too much boost at too low of an rpm combined with too much timing due to overly agressive tunes and insufficient fuel octane.

The better crank will create less parasitic drag on the motor, allow higher rpms, handle more stress, create more displacement..... the list goes on.

Lifting the heads is a problem with the current configuration. That is why another approach is needed. By increasing the rpm capabilities of the motor and using a supercharger (or turbo) capable of keeping up, we can create MUCH more HP with the same cylinder pressures that we have now. 700rwhp would not be an unreasonable goal with other currently available parts.
 
XR7 Dave said:
The problem with lifting heads has to do with running too much boost at too low of an rpm combined with too much timing due to overly agressive tunes and insufficient fuel octane.

The better crank will create less parasitic drag on the motor, allow higher rpms, handle more stress, create more displacement..... the list goes on.

Lifting the heads is a problem with the current configuration. That is why another approach is needed. By increasing the rpm capabilities of the motor and using a supercharger (or turbo) capable of keeping up, we can create MUCH more HP with the same cylinder pressures that we have now. 700rwhp would not be an unreasonable goal with other currently available parts.
Click to expand...

Dave,

How much higher rpms are you talking about ? At present I think my crank and rods are good to about 7000, but the valvetrain is iffy above 6500 rpms.

David
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Wasnt Chris Wise car a stroker?..We all know what his car made...I;d be more interested in a forged steel or cast steel stroker crank at an affordable price personally.
Click to expand...
Uhhhh...I think he was around and gone before I got here. Can you enlighten me there Pokey?

I think the idea is excelent Dave. However, these other parts you speak of are probably more of the RACE engine parts like the 2.2 blower and stage three Steig heads correct? For a Joe Shmoe like myself, I would be interested but it is a hard sell. Im more in the street car scene that sees the track now and again. That means price is a HUGE component. By knife edging our factory crank do we give up any strength?

Chris
 
I'm not trying to sell anyone a billet crank. Like I said before, if you don't already see the value in it, then you aren't a potential buyer. ;)

That being said, how much time/money do you want to put into a stock crank only to have it break on you? Sure you can knife edge it, you can lighten it, you can balance it, you can spend $1000, you can do all sorts of stuff to it, but when it cracks between journals 1 & 2, what good were all your efforts when you window the block and destroy a cylinder head?

Let me toss this out there one more time. 6.2" H beam SBC rods come as light as 500 grams. Stock 5.9"ers are over 700grams and bend like pretzels. Think about that.

If you are serious about performance and will be running your SC for years to come, suddenly a couple G's on a crank isn't the end of the world. For me it would mean waiting another year to build the motor I want instead of doing it now. I can deal with that. I've had the car since new and I'll have it for a few more yet - wait I've got two, dang it there's a couple more years.

When people look at a car like mine and say "Ya, I want to do that but I'm not loaded like him", well I'm not loaded either. Because I've stuck with one car for 15 years, I can budget a couple thousand dollars a year to make it better. When Stieg heads first came out I put all other things on hold and saved the money to get them. I did this because I knew they were worth it even though my current motor can't begin to use them properly. So now instead of having some $1100 heads on my car that have run out of headroom at 400rwhp, I have some $2000 heads on the car that are loafing along at the .500" lift cam and 6000rpm rev limit I currently have. When I get the new crank and a cam to match, I'll be able to run with the best and I won't have taken food off the table to do it.

How cool is it to have the highest HP today? Not as cool as it would be to have a 500+rwhp SC in a couple years when today's SC are looked at as "babies". Only a few years ago people looked at Neil Frisbee's SC as the pinnacle of performance with a 12.48 ET on a 100hp shot of nitrous. Now we are beating that on pump gas. Look at David and Gary running mid 11's on a 100HP shot. Guess what. Soon pump gas SC's will be beating those times and we will be looking for 10 second street driven SC's with nitrous. You want to come along or you want to give up? It's not unlike the first efforts to get a BHJ balancer made for our cars. $400 for a balancer? Are you out of your mind??? lol Well, fast forward to today and half the SC's out there have them. If we'll pay $400 (now $350) for a balancer, why wouldn't we pay a lot more for a crank that will take us to a whole new level of performance?

It's all about planning ahead and looking at where the problem spots are. Rods and pistons are no big deal. That has already been developed. However, fear of the bottom end has always been a problem with these motors. Just ask some people who've been around what they think of the stock crank. They all cringe because they all know that our cranks are like ticking bombs. Like David Neibert said "mine's doing fine at 480rwhp..." for now. ;)
 
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