Help me Identify the different clutch diaphragm/pressure plate. Centerforce

ricardoa1

Registered User
I am on an exercise to identify the pressure plate Centerforce used on the Dual Friction kits.

i the base part number for the pressure plate and kit is 360049.

And I have seen two style diaphragms used, what appears to be a Ford Truck like a 85 Bronco Full size 11” First 3 pictures. Notice the very convex rivet area. And the large donut hump.

But what was in my car and what I had ran for years. Is different. Seen on the Last two pics. The rivet area is flat and the donut hump is less thick. Does anyone have a pic of a genuine DF kit on their shelves? New or used. I’m trying to figure out if there were variations over the year or if maybe the centerforce II and DF used two different PP assuming one with more clamp force than the other.
 

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BLOWN38

SCCoA Member
The one I put in my car that I got from Clark has the weights on it like your dirty pic. Thats all I recall.

On another note. Did you ever figure out why sometimes your car wont crank?
 

AdamG

SCCoA Member
That's what mine looked like several years ago when I installed it in my tbird. I just got one for my sc and it was the same part number but I think it looks different. It still bolts and lines up the same. It's still in the box so I'll get the part number I got as well as a picture of the new pressure plate.
 

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ricardoa1

Registered User
The one I put in my car that I got from Clark has the weights on it like your dirty pic. Thats all I recall.

On another note. Did you ever figure out why sometimes your car wont crank?
It was the dealer installed aftermarket alarm. After stripping it all it never had a start problem. I went through hell and back on that problem.
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
That's what mine looked like several years ago when I installed it in my tbird. I just got one for my sc and it was the same part number but I think it looks different. It still bolts and lines up the same. It's still in the box so I'll get the part number I got as well as a picture of the new pressure plate.
Ok yeah that looks like the older Ford truck style diaphragm. Like the fist three pics I posted, one of them being Ryan Z for sale listing on a DF kit. I have however a different style I wonder if this is a root issue for damaged centerforce clutches. Maybe I have a stock style diaphragm and the rounder style is more heavy duty?

More examples would be helpful. Thanks.
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
What came in my DF kit at the time is the right pictured PP, the DF kit pics I’ve been able to find look more like the left PP, which is made by LUk. Note left PP is a Centerforce II for a 11.5” 94-95 when they were available but has a similar design as the suspected DF kit. I wonder if I got the wrong pressure plate with my DF kit or if Centerforce was unable to secure a source for them at the time.
 

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ricardoa1

Registered User
Adam have you been able to grab a pic of the DF kit that was recently bought?

A little background of what I am trying to accomplish here. There are a few performance kits available. We all know the SPEC ones, and we have had some issues with it, pedal stiff, on/off, hard to modulate with undersized disc springs leading to chatter. Bill at SCP still sells these and has promised that a combination complaints and input has led to improvements on their units. That’s great and all and seems they build them mixing and matching components. I am still not sold on the brand. Centerforce had let me down down several times, 3 blown discs two on the Centerforce II 11.5” and one on the dual friction necessarily in the pressure plate, but more so on the disc, the luk pressure plate on the centerforce II kit never slipped and had enough clamping force when I was mild modded. I moved on to the Dual Friction when I bolted an auto rotor, and did make a few passes on slicks with this clutch. But eventually another exploding disc happened, on the street. Another DF disc and I was back to business, at the same time I went back to 3.08s from 3.27 the more successful gear at the track. The car is making more power however and 3.08 would put more stress on the clutch, large heavy wheels also aggravates the situation, the DF gave up during a street show off when I shifted into second with the line locks on. I’m simply jaded, and I’m sure it’s probably a combination of a perfect storm, maybe break in issues, reusing of some components, abuse etc. Still I am suspect that the pressure plate on the kits being sold after some period or maybe during a specific period are not the heavy duty PP, instead some other source that possible are stock in terms of holding strength, disregard the innovative centerforce weights for a minute. Given the market for the Mazda M5R2 and M5OD slowly dwindling down, I wonder if Centerforce are softening, coupling their kits with a sub par holding pressure plate, unlike the early days where a heavy duty higher clamping pressure plate was being used, tentatively sourced from luk. I mean the days of 20 high HP manual SCs ripping down the track on slicks are behind us, and I’m sure the original Kits with the HD PP probably did get the job done way beyond the expectations of most owners. Note: I don’t have any evidence of the above statement, other than coming up with conclusions based on my experience and investigation from pics and part number searches. So

I gave up on Centerforce. And went with a RAM kit made for our cars, and I have ran it for some time now, but there was a situation or two where I manage to make it slip and while I enjoy the light pedal feel, the kit simply came with a stock like pressure plate found on stock replacement kits, not only that but it appears it was mismatched as the PP surface area seems more suitable to an 11.5” disk and not the 11” dual friction disk it came with. Alot if the remaining aftermarket performance kits (SPEC aside) available are simply stock pressure plates with some upgrades to the disc to make it higher performance.
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
So I’ve been on a quest to fine a source for the luk heavy duty pressure plate, one with more clamping force, I know the trucks with the Mazda 5speeds have such kits still available, as part luk number 07-909 for 93-96 trucks and 07-908 for 88-92 trucks, a stock strength pressure plate interchanges for these years, Tbird and the trucks, it would also indicate that the Heavy Duty kits will have the a pressure plate that will interchange and fit the SC while having a high hold capacity over stock. Presumably the one used on earlier Centerforce kits.
 

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Norm-L

SCCoA Member
I just want to share my recent Centerforce experience. When I was shopping for a clutch for my 95, I was disappointed that Centerforce only offers a clutch for the 89-93 SC. I've had Centerforce before and I loved it. I bought a Spec. I didn't like it at all. It might be good for racing, but it's terrible for the street for the reasons aomeone listed above. I put less than 1000 miles on the Spec and I was already shopping for a different clutch. So, I bought a 93 flywheel and a Centerforce clutch.
Interestingly, the 93 flywheel had the exact same Ford part# as my 95. Also, the screw holes in the Spec clutch I bought for my 95 lined up perfectly with the holes in the 93 flywheel. The new Centerforce pressure plate, ofc, also lined up perfectly. There was only one difference between the flywheels. The 95 flywheel/pressure plate combo used different dowel pins. The 93 pins were the same diameter on both ends while the 95 pins were a smaller diameter on the pressure plate end.
I made myself 3 dowel pins and installed the Centerforce clutch. As expected, I LOVE it. It's the best clutch I've ever felt in my SCs, including the one in my first 95 SC I bought new in 94.
My guess?.... the only reasons Centerforce doesn't list the 11 inch clutch as fitting the 94-95 are the facts that the 94-95 originally came with an 11.5 inch clutch and the flywheels have the wrong dowel pins for the earlier plate. Technically. if you try to put the 93 pressure plate on a 95 flywheel, the oem dowels will be too small and the plate won't center properly, so Centerforce can't legitimately claim that it would fit.
This info opens the door to more options.
Anyone want a Centerforce clutch for your 94-95? Get yourself some proper dowel pins and get the clutch for the 89-93. If you're worried about the 1/2 inch difference, get a higher stage clutch. I'm only running about 300hp, and my stage 1 clutch is holding up great.
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
Centerforce used to offer the 11.5” but stopped at their level II, They did not use a heavy duty clamping PP, I provided a pic of it above, the rusty one. You are correct that the flywheels are the same, except that dowel pins were used with non shouldered hardware, earlier cars used shouldered hardware to prevent movement. Although not sure how necessary that is, they might have also been standard vs metric differences, but the face surface is identical. One point to make is that McLeod Aluminum flywheels will accept both 11 and 11.5” but SPEC only allows for 11” useage. I’ve had both currently on a SPEC alum flywheel. The centerforce dual friction is the safe bet and glad others have the luk heavy duty PP with their kits, I however got the shaft and got a weird pressure plate probably not the heavy duty one, although it appears to be, it’s just not made by luk. I always felt the clutch pedal was stock feeling and thought it was a bonus feature, but likely did not have the big gun only the big bullet. I have the disc from the RAM kit, Which is steel backed organic on one side and Sintered ceramic on the other side, the springs are not the best but I plan on using this disk as I don’t trust the centerforce. I will say the last DF disk failure the disk did not explode and held together, but melted the PP surface and hot spotted the flywheel insert. Unfortunately I’m not planning shelling out another 500 bucks for the DF centerforce kit. Prices are crazy they were much more more affordable before, I will recommend that people still get these assuming you get the PP pictured by Adam.

My plan is to grab the luk F-150 heavy duty kit and use it’s PP. I have the weights from the failed unit but I actually don’t like them as they like to shift and might throw things out of balance. I think Centerforce only sells the HD PP with the dual friction but can’t confirm it. The individual part numbers don’t tell the whole picture, still just the pp from CF goes for almost 300 bucks, the luk HD kit goes for $190~. And I would end up with the same pressure plate tentatively.
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
see the luk kit for the trucks with a HD PP.
 

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ricardoa1

Registered User
Here is the Ram Kit, new on the right. All that’s worth taking bout is the disk. The PP is a stock replacement, so much for high performance. I will say that I like the pedal effort, and the components is super light where it counts. On a mild car probably holds pretty good. I managed to make it slip slamming into third WOT. The misalignment of pp surface vs pucks should be revised by them.
 

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BLOWN38

SCCoA Member
I also successfully installed the early CF clutch to a late flywheel all you need is the dowels. I found that the alignment dowels for V6 Yamaha outboards lower unit to be perfect. Here is the Yamaha part # 93608-12M05-00
 

ricardoa1

Registered User
I got the clutch kit. The HD pressure plate, fingers are definitely stiffer to move vs the two other PP I’ve had used before. I hope the master cylinder is up to the task. I’ll report back if there are any issues with disengagement. Bolt pattern checks out. Dimensions appear to be good in comparison, it’s heavy.
 

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ricardoa1

Registered User
Working as planed, effort is as expected, little more than stock. Very happy, so if looking for an alternative this luk HD kit is a good alternative and pretty sure it’s what’s in the CFDF kit, just change to a full faced friction disk of your choice. Use a dual friction one from Centerforce or Ram. Sachs used to sell a full faced organic disk but they are discontinued.
 
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