M5r2 shifting problems

[Csirny]

It's been an ongoing problem for the past 5 years. The car doesn't want to go into gear from a stop and is sometimes hard shifting. It seems like the more I drive the worse it gets.
When I started this project I originally pulled the transmission to replace the synchros and when I reinstalled it I replaced the slave cylinder centerforce clutch resurfaced the flywheel. The flywheel had .007 taken off. I shimed the flywheel .025. After a few seasons of trying to bleed the clutch over and over again I pulled the transmission again and added another .05 shim to the back of the slave cylinder and replaced the master cylinder. Still nothing has seemed to gotten much better. The pedal is very stiff and seems to have good engagement. I suspect Maybe something is compressing in the slave cylinder just enough to not let it fully disengage with the extra spring pressure of the centerforce or the clutch itself is somehow faulty. I'm at the point now where I think I may pull it all apart again and dump the centerforce for an OEM clutch and replace the slave again.

 

[35th]

if you jack and support the rear of the car put it in first and hold the clutch in do either of the rear tires turn?? if not then the clutch is fully disengaging and your problem would be more internal possibly bad blockers... m5r2 do not have "syncros" is what I was told in 2018 when i was having transmission shift issues. could be an issue of a pilot bearing not allowing the input shaft to slow down enough to shift.. although id assume when you resurfaced the flywheel you would have put a new Pilot in there as well

 

[Csirny]

if you jack and support the rear of the car put it in first and hold the clutch in do either of the rear tires turn?? if not then the clutch is fully disengaging and your problem would be more internal possibly bad blockers... m5r2 do not have "syncros" is what I was told in 2018 when i was having transmission shift issues. could be an issue of a pilot bearing not allowing the input shaft to slow down enough to shift.. although id assume when you resurfaced the flywheel you would have put a new Pilot in there as well

I thought synchros and blockers were the same thing. I could be wrong on that. The wheels spin with the clutch pushed in. And the pilot bearing was also replaced and a light dab of grease on the splines for the clutch disk.

 

[MadMikeyL]

The M5R2 definitely does have synchros. Synchros is short for synchronizer assemblies, of which the blocker ring, or blocker, is one sub-part. Each gear will have its own blocker ring, and when that ring wears out, you will experience grinding into gears, or sometimes popping out of a gear. If something else fails in a synchronizer, you can see hard shifting between 2 gears on the same synchro (ex. 1st and 2nd or 3rd and 4th), or sometimes it can cause the trans to get stuck in a particular gear. However if you have a hard time getting it into every gear, then that is likely a clutch disengagement issue. An easy thing to try, if it is hard to get into gear, pump the clutch pedal 4 or 5 times very fast and then try to get it into gear on the last pump. If it works, then you have air still in the system. An easy way to get most of the air out, get under the car with a long prybar, and go in through the access panel in the side of the bell housing and push the slave cylinder all the way in several times. This will push any air out of the slave cylinder, up through the line, and into the reservoir.

 

[89SupercoupeSC]

I have the same problem and my ”solution” is to shift it first to third or fourth, then it shifts to first easily

 

[35th]

Ok so wheels spinning clutch pressed in is definitely a issue with the clutch not disengaging which rules out syncros or blockers at least for now which way if you remember is the clutch dish facing? It should be facing where the larger protruding springs are facing the transmission and not the flywheel if that's the case then like madmikey said pump the day lights out of the clutch and see if that allows you to shift but I'd definitely lean towards something with clutch or air or something like that being your shifting issue once you feel like you've got it do the same test where you jack it up and press the clutch make sure the tries don't spin and from there can you drive it and shift all the gears? If it grinds afterwards then your looking into syncros/blockers

 

[Norm-L]

When I replaced my clutch last year, I accidentally went one pump too many, while bleeding, without refilling the reservoir. It was the best mistake I ever made. It caused me to have the nightmare of bleeding the air out of the system. I struggled with every method...vacuum bleeding, dozens of pumps, pressure bleeding. I did some research (much of it here), and came up with a pretty simple method, though it does take 2 people. Following this specific process, the clutch was fully bled in just a few pumps.
1- Push the pedal all the way down and hold until step 5
2- Open the bleeder
3- Using a prybar through what would be the clutch fork hole, push the throwout bearing all the way back
4- Close the bleeder
5- Release the pedal (this is critical to get the master's piston to move back far enough to open the passage to the reservoir to allow the slave to draw fluid from it when the bearing is released)
6- Release the prybar to let the slave spring push the bearing back against the pressure plate fingers
7- TOP OFF THE RESERVOIR AFTER EACH PUMP!!!
Repeat a few times, until the fluid comes out without air.
After hours of trying to bleed the clutch using typical methods, with no success, this worked with just a few pumps.

My first 95 SC was my first new car. That one and my current 95 both had the same issue. It was hard to get it into 1st or 2nd at a complete stop. My first one went back to the dealer 3 times, under warranty, with no resolution. When I got my current 95 and it had the same problem, I assumed the transmission just sucked, and I was looking into other options, like a Tremec.
Thanks to that one accidental excess pump, I was forced to come up with a bleeding solution and unwittingly solved my shifting problem. I truly believe that Ford did not properly bleed the system at the factory, so the clutch was never fully disengaged. These slaves are notorious for holding air if you don't move enough fluid in each pump. The use of a prybar to push the bearing all the way back makes it move a lot of fluid and the trapped air gets out.
I can finally truly enjoy shifting my SC for the first time in 28 years of ownership.
I also modified my bleeder assembly so that I could put a hose on the nipple and not have any leaks into the bell housing, but that's another story.
Btw, the mass of the rear wheels and the tightness of the drive train can be enough resistance to keep the wheels from spinning when doing the test on jack stands. This gives the false sense that the clutch is fully disengaged even though it's dragging just enough to make it hard to get into gear, without dragging enough to break the inertia of the rear wheels.
I hope this helps you. Let me know.
Good luck.

 

[Ifrit]

I have the same problem and my ”solution” is to shift it first to third or fourth, then it shifts to first easily

This is the exact same thing I have to do with my car. I have a center force and an aluminum fly wheel. When working on my car I do not believe I shimmed the slave and have not jacked up the car to check if my wheels spin. I will be keeping an eye out here to see what solutions are found.

 

[Norm-L]

This is the exact same thing I have to do with my car. I have a center force and an aluminum fly wheel. When working on my car I do not believe I shimmed the slave and have not jacked up the car to check if my wheels spin. I will be keeping an eye out here to see what solutions are found.

Look at my reply just above. I used to do the same thing...put it in 3rd or 4th before going to 1st, but a proper bleed took care of the problem and I can always put it in 1st or 2nd without any issues. It's like a new transmission now. In that reply I also caution about the possibility that the wheels might not spin even if the clutch is dragging just a bit. It's physics. Also, the bleed process I spell out is much easier to try than shimming the slave. I'm always a fan of trying the easy stuff first.

 

[Ifrit]

Look at my reply just above. I used to do the same thing...put it in 3rd or 4th before going to 1st, but a proper bleed took care of the problem and I can always put it in 1st or 2nd without any issues. It's like a new transmission now. In that reply I also caution about the possibility that the wheels might not spin even if the clutch is dragging just a bit. It's physics. Also, the bleed process I spell out is much easier to try than shimming the slave. I'm always a fan of trying the easy stuff first.

Hey I will always go for the easy test firs! I will be dragging the car out soon and will have to attempt to rebleed everything. Will update if it works.

 

[Csirny]

When I replaced my clutch last year, I accidentally went one pump too many, while bleeding, without refilling the reservoir. It was the best mistake I ever made. It caused me to have the nightmare of bleeding the air out of the system. I struggled with every method...vacuum bleeding, dozens of pumps, pressure bleeding. I did some research (much of it here), and came up with a pretty simple method, though it does take 2 people. Following this specific process, the clutch was fully bled in just a few pumps.
1- Push the pedal all the way down and hold until step 5
2- Open the bleeder
3- Using a prybar through what would be the clutch fork hole, push the throwout bearing all the way back
4- Close the bleeder
5- Release the pedal (this is critical to get the master's piston to move back far enough to open the passage to the reservoir to allow the slave to draw fluid from it when the bearing is released)
6- Release the prybar to let the slave spring push the bearing back against the pressure plate fingers
7- TOP OFF THE RESERVOIR AFTER EACH PUMP!!!
Repeat a few times, until the fluid comes out without air.
After hours of trying to bleed the clutch using typical methods, with no success, this worked with just a few pumps.

My first 95 SC was my first new car. That one and my current 95 both had the same issue. It was hard to get it into 1st or 2nd at a complete stop. My first one went back to the dealer 3 times, under warranty, with no resolution. When I got my current 95 and it had the same problem, I assumed the transmission just sucked, and I was looking into other options, like a Tremec.
Thanks to that one accidental excess pump, I was forced to come up with a bleeding solution and unwittingly solved my shifting problem. I truly believe that Ford did not properly bleed the system at the factory, so the clutch was never fully disengaged. These slaves are notorious for holding air if you don't move enough fluid in each pump. The use of a prybar to push the bearing all the way back makes it move a lot of fluid and the trapped air gets out.
I can finally truly enjoy shifting my SC for the first time in 28 years of ownership.
I also modified my bleeder assembly so that I could put a hose on the nipple and not have any leaks into the bell housing, but that's another story.
Btw, the mass of the rear wheels and the tightness of the drive train can be enough resistance to keep the wheels from spinning when doing the test on jack stands. This gives the false sense that the clutch is fully disengaged even though it's dragging just enough to make it hard to get into gear, without dragging enough to break the inertia of the rear wheels.
I hope this helps you. Let me know.
Good luck.

Hi Norm. I tried this method last summer. Still no change. I might give it one more shot before I pull the thing apart again. I found another post with a similar problem and it was a bad clutch disk

 

[Csirny]

Well with some advice from Dave I decided to replace the clutch disk. Once I started digging in more I found that the shim I put behind the flywheel was causing it to run out. I replaced everything and made sure to torque the flywheel and pressure plate to factory spec and check to see if it was running out this time. Everything went together well and the car is shifting really good so far going easy on it. The transmission fluid wasn't as clean as I would have liked but I kinda expected that. All the synchros checked out good with a feeler gauge the 5th/reverse slider was a bit chewed up (and that one was new and I definitely did not shift the way I was supposed to otherwise I couldn't get into gear. Anyways that's my update. Thanks to everyone that replied and tried to help me